Themes from Consultation Meeting in Orangeville

This is a summary of thoughts expressed by members of the public who attended this consultation meeting. If a point was made by more than one participant, it is included only once in the summary. The comments below sometimes contradict one another because they reflect the diversity of the viewpoints of participants.

Number of public participants: 30

Thoughts about Principles

Accountability

  • Once elected, MPPs are loyal to the party (not the voters) so they can advance their careers.
  • Increased citizen involvement leads to more accountability.

Effective parliament

  • We need more free votes in parliament. The party system runs roughshod over the public will.

Fairness of representation

  • A larger district magnitude is not okay. We need only one contact point (representative) for the political process.
  • I’m concerned that a new system would remove the personal politician-voter relationship.
  • We need proportionality: seat share should equal vote share.
  • Women, minorities, and Aboriginal peoples need to be better represented.
  • Representation by ideology is more important than representation by age, gender, ethnicity, etc. I don’t need to be represented by someone exactly like me.
  • Rural issues need more representation. Toronto has too much power.

Legitimacy

  • A legislature cannot be legitimate if certain groups, such as youth, do not feel represented.

Simplicity & practicality

  • Any change will need to be complex.

Stable & effective government

  • Stability has more to do with the political process than the electoral system. Instability comes from people feeling disenfranchised.
  • Stable and effective governments come from politicians listening to the wishes of the public.
  • Minority governments and coalitions are good and can be stable.

Stronger voter participation

  • Young voters are not voting because they are disenfranchised. They think voting is irrelevant.
  • The democratic deficit will be fixed by greater participation.
  • People don’t vote because they feel left out of the political process.
  • Any change in the electoral system will increase participation.
  • Any change will only create a temporary increase in participation.

Voter choice

  • People should be able to vote for a party they like. They should not be forced to “hold their nose” and vote against a party.

Thoughts about Ontario’s Current Electoral System

Participants highlighted these advantages of First Past the Post:

  • The electoral system we have is not perfect, but it’s well established and should not be abandoned.
  • You are represented by someone (your MPP) even if you voted for someone else. No votes are wasted.
  • Our system is simple and its results are understood. It makes corruption difficult.
  • In our system, we know who the government is.

Participants highlighted these disadvantages of the current system:

  • In our system, there are millions of wasted votes. This denies people representation and discourages voting.
  • Governments aren’t accountable because they represent only a minority of people. Governments often make changes that a majority disagrees with.
  • Our system does not represent women and minorities. It’s not inclusive.
  • No one knows if the results will be fair before an election. Winning seats should not be a matter of luck.
  • It creates a two-party system, left vs. right. Smaller parties are not represented.

Thoughts about Other Systems

Participants made these comments about other systems:

Alternative Vote (AV)

  • AV was recommended, but no details were given.

Mixed Member Proportional (MMP)

  • MMP makes more voices heard in the legislature.
  • I think MMP would increase voter participation.
  • If we change to an MMP system, there should be a 60/40 split between local seats and proportional seats.
  • If we change to an MMP system, ridings need to be kept to a manageable size. We need local representation.
  • I don’t want to lose local representation, but I’ll give some of it up for a more representative government.
  • The problem with MMP is that it creates two tiers of politicians.

Proportional Representation (PR) systems

  • Under PR, I think legislation would be passed by people who represent a majority of voters. This would be fair and make government more accountable.
  • PR produces positive voting: voting for a party, not against one.
  • PR would increase voter participation. I think Europe has higher turnouts.
  • PR allows parties to make their policies more coherent. Parties can appeal to smaller groups to gain representation based on good policies. This gives us better choices.
  • PR produces coalitions, which better represent the priorities of the public.
  • PR is used in countries where conflict exists and is still effective. Stability problems with minority governments can be overcome.
  • PR creates more stable central parties and reduces swings in government from left to right.
  • There is no guarantee that a proportional government would be a better government.
  • PR wouldn’t necessarily give choice.
  • PR can create instability. Governments can take a long time to form after elections.
  • PR encourages wheeling and dealing by political parties for power, which puts off the public.
  • How can you be represented by someone from a party list?

Two-Round System

  • A Two-Round System was recommended, but no details were given.

Other Thoughts

If the Assembly recommends a new system

  • We shouldn’t rush into the process.
  • The 60% threshold should be challenged. It is not fair.
  • The new system needs to be understood by the public.
  • The government must fund the promotion of the referendum.
  • In the education campaign, we should stress the successes of the new system, not its failures.
  • The referendum should be held separately from the election to create more interest.

Size of the legislature

  • We had a larger parliament before and could go back to it. It’s not really that expensive and shouldn’t be a concern.
  • Everything is run by Cabinet, so expanding the legislature is not that important.

Other comments

  • When considering a new system, the Assembly should compare Ontario to countries where the system has been a success and countries where it’s been a failure.
  • The Assembly should consider the party system.
  • People think that their role in politics is limited to voting, but they need to be more involved. Democracy is not a “once-every-four-years event.”
  • Youth should be more involved in politics. They understood the issues in the Students’ Assembly. I think they are 10% of the population, but they are 100% of the future.
  • Politicians don’t run government, the bureaucracy does.
  • Inaccurate voters’ lists are a bigger problem than low turnout. A mail-in ballot or electronic voting would take away excuses for not voting.

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